Random map generator


#81

These ideas are very very bad.
If only as map editor options.
PS Last problem is solved by creating copy of griffin creatures. They will not upgrade, and if set as “special”: true, will not be met in maps


#82

These are not my ideas, it is merely a list of rules that people play ATM in multiplayer. And some things I introduced to allow players a more balanced way to still play with certain things.

For example right now grail has to be outright banned from the beginning, since you can stumble upon it at the gate of your castle… Imagine fun game for the other side in that game.

forum.heroesworld.ru/showpost.ph … ostcount=4


#83

Don’t see fun in playing symmetric games with no possibility.
It’s a war, someone will find victory, someone will loose.
And grail is only gold, what can it give at start of the game?
Only Tower grail is useful at first time.
For Conflux there are no good mages at start, etc.


#84

krs, what about this:

Split your suggestions into these property groups I mentioned (zones, templates, user-selectable, object) and start page named “RMG template format” or something like that. Your suggestions are OK but I’d rather have them on wiki rather than on forum.

This will have to wait till scripting. I just don’t see them possible to be implemented in vcmi - they are questionable and are too specific to tournaments.


#85

I do not see the role of scripting in all this… Can you please explain.

For banning stuff from the map I imagine a kind of gui where you opt out things that you do not want to appear on the map. Something like a :disabled: or something. Where does scripting come in place?

And I am not saying apply those rules to every single template. I am just saying that a framework has to be laid down so such things should be possible. EG: you like playing with 0 utopias while opponent has 5… set min utopias to 0- max to 5. For those wanting balance they will set it to min1-max1 or min1-max2 or 0-0.

As for Grails building… funny that you;ve mentioned tower grail that I lost to in one game while clearly ahead hero and army wise… Here an excrept: “The tower grail building is the impressive Skyship, which provides an additional +5000 gold per day, boosts creature growth by +50 percent, reveals the entire world map, and gives garrison heroes a +15 knowledge benefit.” So in addition to a free chartographer (which by the way is also banned) it gives you 1/2 more troops and loads of money to buy those troops while my 3 towns were producing … 3500G… (even less in week 1)

As for wiki I think more brainstorming is necessary. These are just some things I came up with from my little mp/rmg experience.


#86

I was referring only to 2 suggestions from last post (dirty bit for creatures and single level 7 dwelling).
Everything else may be a good idea to implement as part of object configuration or RMG itself.

This is actually the reason why I suggested wiki - to keep everything in one place instead of spreading it out across whole thread.


#87

It’s now, when dwellings modding system is not yet implemented. But how many options will be required, when there will be possibility to create 20-30 dwellings similar to Dragon Utopia?
I think it’s better to create predefined buildings type (like treasure/relic/etc) and to work with these types on RMG, not with exactly pointed buildings.

Types like:
DWELLING0LEVEL
DWELLING1LEVEL

DWELLING8LEVEL
BANK_1LEVEL

BANK_7LEVEL (Dragon Utopia)
BONUS_1LEVEL (like Windmill or shrine 1)
BONUS_7LEVEL (like Emerald tower)

I’ve done some maps with grails in enemy towns, etc they can be defeated.
PS As I said only Tower grail gives advancing on first weeks because of map exploration.


#88

Dragon Utopia is NOT a dwelling.

There is no need to split objects by their “level”, just a generic value of object for all types.

We are talking about multiplayer balance here, when the entire game lasts 3 weeks on XL map.


#89

Dwellings, bonus buildings and banks still must be divided at least.
Or we end up with 5 dwellings of level 7 or 4 utopas near town.


#90

What is wrong with that? If a zone is rich, it contains valuable objects. I would rather see 4 Utopias than 25 Crypts in a treasure zone.
Also, adding more types of objects would solve the problem.


#91

The problem with Utopia is that it really gives you a lot in comparision to other banks. So having it or not in a zone may secure a victory for a player.

Another problem is that dragons inside surround you are fast and so tough to kill without losses. Here comes another part of balance . Some towns get it really easy to win utopia in 2 or 3 week without losses and some towns just cannot do it.

For example with fortress you can go into Utopia and finish it up with just 3-5 hydras and 6 lizardsman (optional cure spell helps but is not needed). Not every town in h3 has such trick that makes it easy or possible to win Utopia in 2 or 3 week of game. Important to note here is that most multiplayer games end in 3 week of play.


So another question is who uses random generator ? Well it is mostly used in multiplayer. Singlepalyers prefer campaign and good solo scenerios. So random generator is mostly used in multiplayer and maybe by some mapmapkers to ease up map making process. So IMHO VCMI should target random map generator ar mainly a multiplaye feature as it mostly used there.

Why is it used in multplayer while there are many good ‘fixed’ maps for mp ? Well, because it’s the only way to be close to what original heroes is . On fixed maps you must know the map and most likely you will know it in a way that all your game is already planned before you start playing to the point that you know when what object on map you will visit. That is why random maps are used so much multiplayer because it gives a new unknown map to both players.

So what MP needs is balanced maps and a way to make sure that none of players can view generated map in the map editor to cheat. While we may argue on objects and stuff I see no one told here anything about the most easiest way to make random maps balance which is to mirror zones of players. That way both players get the same amount of utopias dwelllings etc.

Mirrored random map templates was added to Heroes 3 World Tournament . IMHO mirrored random maps would be nice to have in VCMI. The pattern could be:

-Fully mirrored all players have the same mirrored zones

  • Partially mirrored - zones closest to players are mirrored, but some zones in the middle between them are not and are considered passage zones (zones through which you can pass to other player land)

In practice fully mirrored maps would be the most balanced ones. Also it is a pattern of most fan made multiplayer maps.


#92

I agree that template and support for mirrored maps should exist along with the rest. They are not mutually exclusive, they are just a particular case of rmg templates.


#93

Well, This was long time before, right. But now everybody played SP good maps a good dozen of times, so a good generator is very popular. From HC I see that most people prefer randoms, as they consider a custom map too restrictive.

Personally I like playing random single, but of course with my script modifications. That’s why I think VCMI should emphasize on script support because the vanilla Heroes is simply outdated. Single player speaking, it has not much interest.


#94

Hi guys,

Thank you for keeping alive this game !!!

I am playing this game since 2000, even now I play via Hamachi with my friends weekly.
We are playing WOG, but only few rules (heroes are moving double, 2 extra skills, none of WOG buildings and artifacts).
We are playing random maps only (XL, 2 players, 200%,2 min).

Only now I found your project, I installed, but the random maps is not working.

I will appreciate some help with random maps.

Thank you,

PS - mirror zones is the best idea for random maps, our main issue is the luck !!! We want to see who is the best, without luck !!! - so I vote for mirror zones :slight_smile:


#95

Random map generator in VCMI at the moment is, well… not generating random maps. Keep in mind that VCMI is still work in progress, you can encounter some odd things like bugs, crashes, freezes or some missing functionalities (just like this one). Temporary solution is to generate such map in H3, and then use it in VCMI.


#96

Does anybody know how to get a wogified random map from the WoG random map generator (original game) into VCMI? Since the random map generator is unfinished (and unusable? I’d like to see what it’s currently capable of first hand) I’d like to play a random map generated by the original game’s code in VCMI. This is doable, but not with the wog structures and additions that come from wogification.

Is there a way to wogify a .h3m file? Is there a way to convert a H3 saved game into a map or a VCMI save? Is there some other way to play a random WoG map in VCMI? Thanks.


#97

You can run WoG maps in VCMI normally. Just new objects won’t work.


#98

I know that wog maps will run. But I don’t know how to get a random wog map with the structures that wogification creates. In WoG, wog structures are added via a process called wogification when the game starts. There’s never a h3m map with these structures added.

So my question is, is it really the case that there’s no way to play a map in VCMI post wogification?


#99

I have the “HoMM Complete” Version from Purple Hills and I installed VCMI on it. It’s working fine. Just the random map generator says “Could not create a map that fits current choices.” when I select a map size bigger than medium.

Is this a normal limitation or is it a bug?
If it’s a bug, does somebody know how to fix it?

Thx in advance!


#100

This is not a bug, current RMG cannot generate maps larger than medium. RMG is work in progress.