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Sim turns
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krs


Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Posts: 374
Posted: 2012-09-04, 20:35   Sim turns

I see every single Heroes series runs away from them.

I understand that a true sim turns is a great enterprise, BUT! Why not implement a dumbed down version? Allow players to move simultaneously UNTIL they can possibly have a first contact in the next turn. Then just disable it. (Just calculate all movement, + possible TP, + Dimension door + teleports).

The beginning of the game is really where most of the time is lost.

I am not a specialist but this should be easy to implement. Or?
 
     
Warmonger 
VCMI programmer


Age: 28
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 1545
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posted: 2012-09-05, 06:12   

Everything seems easy when others have to do it for you :P

I think you should take a look at this thread posted just a month ago instead of starting next one.
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krs


Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Posts: 374
Posted: 2012-09-05, 06:55   

Maybe it seems easy for an outsider. But why not take 1 minute to correct us :D? Why would it take more than 1 week to implement?

Player presses end turn, max range for all heroes for next turn is calculated. (You can even make 2 options eye contact or physical contact). Next player presses end turn same thing. When the ranges intersect turn off sim turns. Looks simple :).

It is a feature that would elevate the game to the next level. And would do so great for marketing. Just imagine put it in bold on the front page: Unlike Heroes 6 we have Sim Turns!
 
     
RandomEd 

Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 35
Posted: 2012-09-05, 08:48   

I think it would be a kinda hard to implement and it won't be a "linear" feature.

You would think to say that it's as simple as defining areas around a hero where they can walk. Well, yes and no.. What if they can fly? what is they have town portal? what if they have town portal and than castle gate? What if they go to a building that gives them more move point? Continues with portals, whirlpools, boats, navigation, etc.

You will also have to define similar areas around the castles. That should be simple enough, after all they are static, right? Well, yes, and no.. What id the player decides to hire a hero from that castle? What if the hero has fly?

There are probably things I didn't think of here, but you get the point.

A simpler solution would be like this:

There should be a sandbox implemented. The user does all his moves at the same time as the other players and if their moves intersect (in a blocking way) at any point, the sandbox is discarded and the user has to wait for the others to finish.

Of course, it's not that easy to implement the sandbox either, but I think it's simpler than the alternative.

EDIT: Damn, you said the same thing.. I'm sorry, I misread your message, it's too early in the morning..
 
     
val-gaav 

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 186
Posted: 2012-09-05, 10:53   

BTW there is already a sim turns soluton for h3 : http://translate.google.p...heroeswt.net%2F it seems to work only for first week though. Nevertheless I am quite amazed it could be done without source code of the game.
 
     
Tow 
Project Lead
VCMI Programmer


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1407
Location: Kraków, Poland
Posted: 2012-09-05, 12:11   

The sim turns are part of our plans and will be implemented.

krs wrote:
Why not implement a dumbed down version? Allow players to move simultaneously UNTIL they can possibly have a first contact in the next turn. Then just disable it. [...] I am not a specialist but this should be easy to implement.

Not really. Implementing the sim turns you described won't be much easier than implementing "perfect" sim turns. The good news is that sim turns are generally not that hard feature to implement in our networking model. The most work-consuming may be adding the support for fighting more than one battle at the time.

Or: Player A visits Treasure Chest. Gold or exp dialog opens. Player B saves the game. We want the game to display that dialog for A when the savefile is loaded. ATM we can't save open dialogs and their callbacks. That was not a problem since player couldn't save game with unanswered dialog open.

That's the kind of issues I guess will cause more trouble than handling conflicts itself. Server validation of actions is mostly already done, so server will discover if player
attempts an action that has been just made impossible by an enemy. Basically in our model clients just sends request to server and server tells what are the results. If there are no results (request is just rejected) or results are unexpected (I wanted to visit an empty tile but there is an enemy now!) the client will be fine most of the time.
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krs


Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Posts: 374
Posted: 2012-09-05, 13:24   

"sim turns are generally not that hard feature to implement" + (paraphrasing) "but there will be some issues (not unsurmountable) with the way our current client/server work atm".

Well... I am more than satisfied :) with the answer. It was the way I saw the whole thing from the beginning.

I know you have lots of other stuff on work, but as an ( unasked for, yes :) ) advice: Make it happen and capitalize on it. It is the kind of feature that will appeal greatly to players.

OK so you knew about this dumbed down version... I go right you another thread about... wait for it... variable size battlefields :D.
 
     
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